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Introducing: Ketarin


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Hi all,

I always keep a compilation of the latest setup packages of my favourite software.

However, it is quite a lot of work to keep track of such updates. I searched for a tool to help me with that, but since I couldn't find one (only tools which were meant to keep my system up to date instead of just downloading the stuff), I decided to come up with something myself.

I'm now done and quite pleased with the result. I'll call this application "Ketarin", and you may download it (as well as the source code) from the website.

Screenshots and instructions are available.

I usually put the setups on an USB stick, but it my as well serve as a complement to CDBurnerXP if you burn these files to CD or DVD. Some feedback is appreciated :)

Regards,

Flo

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Guest Chillstar

This seems like a great idea- Webmon's good, but the more we can automate this kind of stuff the better in my book.

Thanks for the great tool- I'll give it a shot and let you know if I have any problems /ideas / feedback.

Cheers

Marcus

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And i'm still using Webmon (and for many years now) :) Automatic donwloading could be great. But there are some issues. What if page changes something, what will happen with the download? In Webmon i get an error, so i know i have to check that page and my filter. Another thing is that i have my own setup naming scheme, and most of the software i monitor doesnt include version numbers with their setups. Too many problems will be for me.

Good idea though, for some applications. But i already have 387 monitorings in my Webmon :D

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If a web page changes in a way that it can no longer be processed by Ketarin, you will get an error. Or rather a list of errors at the end of the process.

A custom naming scheme could be possible, in combination with a service like FileHippo or custom variables which are already used for the URL.

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Guest SwampCat@

Hi Flo,

Two good programs to check in this area are

Update Star http://www.updatestar.com/

Securina http://secunia.com/vulnerability_scanning/personal/

even if those can sometimes make little mistakes, they will give you pretty accurate picture of what's going on regarding installed on you system and draw your attention

But I will definitely check your utility.

There is always a subset of Software you have to keep updated in the first place as "must do"

The very attractive and indeed helpful feature (from screenshots & description) is the part where user can save/see the local download location. I have to look closer (work with Utility :-) to get better understanding of the differences as for file/folder ... but one thing for sure - that should be good stuff.

I have downloads on External drive. I am pretty much organized. The folders & setup files are named and categorized in a very self explanatory structure and naming convention, but believe me or not - currently there are 1.271 folders(!) ... I mean, I always have a reason to think ( :-) ) and spend some time in order to move current downloads into proper places.

Cheers

SwampCat

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Update Star looks like a copy of FileHippo :) Anyway, such services are good for MS or Adobe stuff, because there is no easy way to monitor that yourself. Some developers have a very tricky download schemes, so i can't monitor them easily with say Webmon. But i can't rely fully on those services (FileHippo, UpdateStar), because one day they maybe down and i will be left with no updates.

One more thing about why i prefer only the notifications, is that i want to know what has been updated, what new version has appeared and maybe check the changelog. Havent tried Ketarin yet, maybe it doesnt only download, but notifies too.

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Hi Flo,

This is just an introduction page.

Can we expect Discussion/Bugs and other pages for Keratin?

Cheers

P.S.

Meanwhile, what could this mean at the prog. startup?

"Could not create or load the database file: The type initializer for 'System.Transactions.Diagnostics.DiagnosticTrace' threw an exception."

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This is just an introduction page.

Can we expect Discussion/Bugs and other pages for Keratin?

Once it's worth it, sure.

"Could not create or load the database file: The type initializer for 'System.Transactions.Diagnostics.DiagnosticTrace' threw an exception."

Usually this hints at corrupted .NET Framework installations. You might want to try a reinstallation, also see http://cdburnerxp.se/help/intro/faq for a tool which does that.

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Thanks for reply, Flo.

First, sorry for misspelling Ketarin. (this board doesn't have Edit ...hmmm)

As for Framework. Bad luck. As you know I have the latest (3.5 SP1) and installed properly.

The A.Stebner's cleaner used as well but just to prove the fact. SP1 of 3.5 will break all Framework 2 applications. If I uninstall SP1 they work again. Framework 2 always was the clearest to insatall, meaning never reported any issues when using Aaron's Framework integrity checkup Utility.

Few notes about the FAQ link you provided.

1) it referres to Framework 3.0 as the latest, which is not (and frameworks 3 & 2 should be with SP2).

2) the advice to uninstall Comodo Firewall was the most surprising thing (Why??) It is the best firewall ever. CDbunerXP always worked with Comodo, staring from version 2. Now it is the latest 3 with Defense+ (HIPS) ... no issues with burner.

... but the latest framework unfortunately is a problem somehow. No answers from MS yet.

My regards

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In any case, there is something fishy with your frameworks, because - as you know - 3.5 should not break 2.0 applications. This error message is probably a result of that. The Google results hint at it too. Does it make a difference if the config file is included?

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Hi Flo,

It doesn't make a difference if the said config file is present in Ketarin's directory...

unless you meant something different

As for "Google hint at it", is there any new info for me to read ? Where is the hint :-) ?

Cheers

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Guest appyface

Hi Flo!

Like you I have the same issue... it's a chore to make sure I have the current update to my favorite programs. I use Watchthatpage.com for monitoring web pages (over 1200 now, not all are for downloading software so still a place for this service), and I use Secunia, UpdateStar, FileHippo too.

I really like your concept of Ketarin very much. *I* can specify exactly what I want to download and from where, instead of relying on a system scan and/or websites that only have certain programs' updates to provide me. I may also wish to download updates to programs that I might not currently have installed. Ketarin really helps here too.

If you would like some ideas for Ketarin, IMO these features would be very good to have:

1. Provide easy access to a log file of the session and all that happened, good or not. Connections, found/not found, failed/interrupted download etc. Pretty much everything Ketarin encounters including successful download with UIRLs, filename, variables loaded, etc. Sometimes it is just nice to inspect a log file. I like the error window but a button to access the logfile along with some logfile management features (such as allowing me to specify location and name, and perhaps use a date on the filename) would really be nice.

2. Allow me to choose the location and name of the SQLLite database.

3. Provide option to rename existing file on disk, if downloading to same location/same name and 'no overwrite' permitted. Many downloaders rename the NEW file coming in, I'd prefer the existing file be renamed. I usually end up keeping the new file (unless it is a true duplicate), so renaming the previously existing file makes it easy for me to spot it for move/delete file cleanup.

4. Provide option to use the variables in avoiding the redownload of the same file. Many software vendors do NOT rename the installer to contain the version information (oh I wish they would!), it is nonexistent or is just partial information.

If Ketarin could use variables for a couple more things besides building the download URL:

a. Store variables in the SQLLite database to associate with the download. Ketarin could avoid a re-download of same update, regardless of the file's actual name, the download URL, the name and location on my local disk, by simply comparing the current values of the variables scraped from the website, to what is stored in the database for them.

b. Use variables to rename the downloaded file. Ketarin could easily rename the downloaded file for me to include the version information, if it is available on the website and Ketarin could capture it in variables.

Ketarin could also use this method as it does now, to decide whether to redownload a file -- if the newly assembled name already exists and there is no overwrite and no renaming, it could skip the download that way. Offering both methods (use database info or compare to disk filename) would be very flexible if offered on a file-by-file basis.

5. Provide place to store userid/password as some software might require a loginid. Ketarin ought to be password protected itself in this case. Optionally some people might prefer their site passwords be stored in encrypted state.

6. Another possible feature for Ketarin, would be to hand off a list of URLs via text file (or clipboard?) for downloading and scheduling by favorite downloader instead of Ketarin. Ketarin would not be able to utilize some of the above features but still some people might prefer to use their favorite downloader.

7. Some very basic downloader controls, such as concurrent number of active files and specifying speed limits, would be useful.

I hope you will consider the above ideas, and anything else that would make Ketarin simplify this job even more :-) Thanks for listening.

Best regards,

--appyface

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Guest appyface

Thanks Flo!

If I had to pick and choose (oh pretty please don't make me :-) I would prioritize to have command line or other way to schedule Ketarin unattended, and use variables scraped from page and stored, so Ketarin doesn't download (presumably) same file again. Almost all (all?) web sites have a change log or other mention of version somehow/somewhere on some page (even on completely different URL such as sourceforge) (even if just a release date) being able to scrape and store this for each new comparison would save doing the actual download regardless of the current location/name of the local file. Not perfect, but one way to handle that problem.

Gimme those two options? :-) I think you're the first with this type of program. I have wanted this, like, forever :-)

Best regards,

--appyface

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Actually, Ketarin should know from the sile size and date whether or not it needs to be redownloaded. Checking website content is not necessary usually.

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Actually, Ketarin should know from the sile size and date whether or not it needs to be redownloaded. Checking website content is not necessary usually.

Hi Flo, yes if using the file on disk as comparison. My point is that I like to rename files (many vendors put no or only partial version, sometimes even use a really poor name choice such as "setup.exe" GASP), and I like to relocate the files as well. In either of those cases Ketarin will not know anything about the previous file I downloaded, because it is either no longer in the original download directory, has been renamed, or both.

That's why I'd like to scrape information from one or more URLs into variable(s) and compare to what was stored in database for those variables on the previous download. Then Ketarin does not need the file on disk to decide if it should download. Hope that is clearer, thanks again!

--appyface

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When updating, Ketarin will always make sure that at the end, a current version of the setup file exists at the given location. So if you move the file, without adjusting the settings (application job) it is the expected behaviour to redownload. If you just want to rename the file, I can of course add a rename functionality, so that Ketarin knows when a file has been renamed. This seems more suitable to me.

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Guest appyface

(Quoting Flo): When updating, Ketarin will always make sure that at the end, a current version of the setup file exists at the given location. So if you move the file, without adjusting the settings (application job) it is the expected behaviour to redownload. If you just want to rename the file, I can of course add a rename functionality, so that Ketarin knows when a file has been renamed. This seems more suitable to me. (end Quote)

Hi Flo!

OK I gratefully accept having the rename option :-) I can live with a redownload if I should relocate the file.

Does Ketarin already have the ability to scrape several different variables from a single webpage, and also to scrape several variables from different URLs? I haven't tried it, but it looks like it would. Some of the vendors I get files from, not only don't name the download file with version information, but they don't even put all the information on a single webpage. I would need to scrape multiple variables from each of a few different webpages in order to get all the pieces I would want to use for the file rename. (Note: I *really* appreciate that YOU put your version information right in the filename.)

Then Ketarin could check, not for the presence of the vendor's filename in my download directory, but for the newly-assembled-to-be-renamed-filename that will be downloaded, and skip the download if the renamed file is already there. Works for me :-)

I haven't tried to do this, so I'll just ask you while I'm here: Can Ketarin use network UNC pathnames for the downloaded file directories? If so, I could have just one invocation of Ketarin to do the downloads for ALL my machines, out to a common server store directory/subdirectories. I hope Ketarin can do this, that would be great. I should try it :-)

If Ketarin has command line invocation with unattended mode, I could schedule Ketarin to run at night while I'm asleep and not using the connection. :-) Ketarin would need to have retry setting, skip and go on to next one if unavailable, etc. if running unattended. Maybe small threading model and/or speed control.

(Ooo ooo ooo just thought of something: I use Free Download Manager for my downloader. It uses plugins. Maybe someday Ketarin could be a plugin to FDM? Then after gathering info Ketarin could feed both the constructed download URL *and* the download path with beautifully constructed and renamed filename, to FDM? FDM has all the restart, speed control, threading etc. one would ever need I think. Ooo ooo ooo just an idea I hope you are intriged by this thought :-) )

Flo, I have wanted something like where I think Ketarin is heading, for a very long time. No one does this, that I can find. They all want to use their own data stores and read my machine's installation in order to check for new files. I want to use my OWN criteria and I want to have a central download repository, regardless of what is or is not installed on the downloading machine. Some of my machines do not connect to the internet, so I manually check and download for them from an internet machine. Ketarin would automate that for me! Bravo to you for putting this program out for us, and for seriously considering all of our suggestions. Thank you Flo!

Best regards,

--appyface

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Does Ketarin already have the ability to scrape several different variables from a single webpage, and also to scrape several variables from different URLs?

Yep, just try.

I haven't tried to do this, so I'll just ask you while I'm here: Can Ketarin use network UNC pathnames for the downloaded file directories?

Sure, there shouldn't be a difference to usual file locations.

If Ketarin has command line invocation with unattended mode, I could schedule Ketarin to run at night while I'm asleep and not using the connection. :-) Ketarin would need to have retry setting, skip and go on to next one if unavailable, etc. if running unattended. Maybe small threading model and/or speed control.

Certainly an idea, but let's not overdo it for now ;)

(Ooo ooo ooo just thought of something: I use Free Download Manager for my downloader. It uses plugins. Maybe someday Ketarin could be a plugin to FDM?

Would make sense, but won't have time to look into that for a while.

Flo, I have wanted something like where I think Ketarin is heading, for a very long time. Thank you Flo!

Thanks! :)

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Guest

Hi there,

This program is awesome. When do you think the next version will be out with some of the changes mentioned above?

If it's going to be a while I was thinking of learning C# and making some of them myself :)

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